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X5000 More Stable After Changing Theme / How to Force Close Halted Apps? - OS4.1 FE w/ Crystal Theme
Just popping in
Joined:
9/27 3:41
From USA
Posts: 53
Haven't had the greatest success keeping my system from halting on me, but after switching the theme to the Crystal theme at OS4Depot I haven't had the machine lock-up on me quite as much. Don't see how this can affect the stability of the machine, but prior to switching, when I would click on the calendar, occasionally the top bar and the Calendar window would flash and wouldn't let me select other windows on the screen for a few seconds. Doesn't seem to suffer from this issue now. Fingers crossed!

Has anyone else had issues with applications halting and not being able to close them? I would love to know how anyone else deals with this. I tried the KillApps executable included with the soft shutdown package on OS4Depot, nothing there, and the applications will no longer show up on Exchange or AppManager. Is there any way in the shell to force these puppies closed?

Thanks!!

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Re: X5000 More Stable After Changing Theme / How to Force Close Halted Apps? - OS4.1 FE w/ Crystal Theme
Quite a regular
Joined:
2006/12/2 0:35
From Sydney
Posts: 653
@m1nuto

Can you be more specific about the "halting"? Does the machine just totally freeze or does it show a message of some sort?

What PCI/PCI-e devices do you have plugged in? I'm hoping that you don't have one of the known-bad CMI8738 audio cards.

Bear in mind that if you have 16 GB of RAM fitted, only the first 2 GB are usable by OS4. In fact, I find on my X-5000-020 that it won't even boot if I fit 8 GB (U-Boot does not run). You might try running it with only a single 2 GB DIMM and see how it goes. I've never tried fitting 16 GB.

I agree with you, I can't think of any way that the theme should alter the stability of the machine. There is no reliable or safe way to force quit tasks that have crashed. The only guaranteed safe strategy is to reboot.

When I crash a task here, I leave the GR requester untouched on the WB screen while I shut down all the other open programs. If you hit the "Kill" button, all bets are off, while if you leave it in its "crashed/suspended" state, the rest of the system is able to run and shut down in an orderly manner.

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tony
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Re: X5000 More Stable After Changing Theme / How to Force Close Halted Apps? - OS4.1 FE w/ Crystal Theme
Just popping in
Joined:
9/27 3:41
From USA
Posts: 53
@tonyw

My sound card doesn't seem to have any issues, and knew about the RAM issue. Can't wait to see the release that opens up more RAM. Maybe some applications won't crash as often since there is so much more space to lay in data, and applications touching other applications mem space. I don't think its related to having a full 16GB of RAM.

When I say halting, the machine itself was freezing often, but more commonly now is just application freezes. It just seems more stable with an alternate theme from the original...

The main issue now is I have to reinstall cause the graphics setup broke again

Once it resizes to a smaller resolution, I can't upscale it. When I go to a larger resolution the screen just scrolls in an 800x600 square. I found the directory where Workbench reads the resolution so after this install, if it were to happen again, I'll just boot from cd and overwrite the folder in the sys and should fix that screen issue. Going to actually test it before getting everything setup again

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Re: X5000 More Stable After Changing Theme / How to Force Close Halted Apps? - OS4.1 FE w/ Crystal Theme
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2014/6/6 17:57
From Sacramento, CA
Posts: 5
@m1nuto

Bring it to AmiWest2017!

I'll fix it for you!!

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Re: X5000 More Stable After Changing Theme / How to Force Close Halted Apps? - OS4.1 FE w/ Crystal Theme
Home away from home
Joined:
2006/11/20 16:26
From Norway
Posts: 2634
@m1nuto

AmigaOS does not have way close crashed or programs that locks up, so developer has to be 110% more sure it things works.

if the OS or a program locks up all you can do reboot, that's the only safe thing to do.

If you can get program to get unstuck depends on how program locked up, if program is waiting for signal it never got, you can signal the program to get it get unstuck, but as you do not know what signal is for you, it can result in a crash. If this is the case.

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Re: X5000 More Stable After Changing Theme / How to Force Close Halted Apps? - OS4.1 FE w/ Crystal Theme
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2007/1/26 21:48
From New Zealand
Posts: 1834
@m1nuto

Do the system freezes occur when you're using particular programs?

AmigaOS 4.x should be pretty stable, and simply switching the theme shouldn't affect the OS' stability. So I'm wondering if the freezes relate to specific software you're using, or if maybe your machine is overheating or has some other issue (like the graphics card is flaky or not plugged in securely, maybe the power supply is poor).

If the Crystal theme requires less GPU processing power, then graphics card and/or power supply issues are plausible.

Hans

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Re: X5000 More Stable After Changing Theme / How to Force Close Halted Apps? - OS4.1 FE w/ Crystal Theme
Quite a regular
Joined:
2009/5/1 17:57
From Czech Republic
Posts: 929
@tonyw

Quote:
In fact, I find on my X-5000-020 that it won't even boot if I fit 8 GB (U-Boot does not run).

Which somewhat spoils the ExtMem party, doesn't it? Frankly, I see your finding as rather alarming. Could A-EON please comment on that, to clear things up?

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Re: X5000 More Stable After Changing Theme / How to Force Close Halted Apps? - OS4.1 FE w/ Crystal Theme
Just popping in
Joined:
2014/6/29 14:12
From Montserrat
Posts: 147
8GB here and not seeing any U-boot issues.

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Re: X5000 More Stable After Changing Theme / How to Force Close Halted Apps? - OS4.1 FE w/ Crystal Theme
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2008/1/6 17:56
From Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 1240
@trixie
Quote:
Which somewhat spoils the ExtMem party, doesn't it? Frankly, I see your finding as rather alarming. Could A-EON please comment on that, to clear things up?

I think I have 4GB memory in my X5000 (that's what I ordered) but never checked to see if that's what I got. I remember that the old µA1 worked correctly with some brands of memory but not others. Maybe the X5000 has similar memory sensitivity. I wouldn't take Tony's problem with 8GB as an indicator that X5000 can't work right with more than 2GB memory.

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Re: X5000 More Stable After Changing Theme / How to Force Close Halted Apps? - OS4.1 FE w/ Crystal Theme
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2010/1/22 20:03
From VIGO SPAIN
Posts: 335
@xenic

I have 4 gb, without any problem.

virginio

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Re: X5000 More Stable After Changing Theme / How to Force Close Halted Apps? - OS4.1 FE w/ Crystal Theme
Quite a regular
Joined:
2009/5/1 17:57
From Czech Republic
Posts: 929
@xenic

Quote:
I wouldn't take Tony's problem with 8GB as an indicator that X5000 can't work right with more than 2GB memory.

I don't assume that, but surely it would be disappointing if the X5000 didn't support more than 4GB? Which apparently isn't the case now that we know Spectre660 can run 8GB just fine.

I'm just curious if A-EON happened to have tested any 8GB(+) setups of the A5000, and if they're aware of any incompatibilities (which might affect tonyw's system).

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Re: X5000 More Stable After Changing Theme / How to Force Close Halted Apps? - OS4.1 FE w/ Crystal Theme
Quite a regular
Joined:
2006/12/2 0:35
From Sydney
Posts: 653
@trixie

Yikes! What did I say?

I'd better check again to make sure that what I said is the truth. I can't be sure that I had 8 GB (2 x 4 GB) fitted at the time, but there was certainly one combination of DIMMs that prevented U-Boot from starting (months/a year ago). Can't check right now because I lent them to a friend.

It's also possible that I have an older version of U-Boot than other people and that the "problem" has been fixed.

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tony
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Re: X5000 More Stable After Changing Theme / How to Force Close Halted Apps? - OS4.1 FE w/ Crystal Theme
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Joined:
2006/11/25 13:38
From Adelaide South Australia
Posts: 606
@tonyw
I have 16gb here, OS4 sees 2gb, Linux sees it all using recent kernels.

ace

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Re: X5000 More Stable After Changing Theme / How to Force Close Halted Apps? - OS4.1 FE w/ Crystal Theme
Quite a regular
Joined:
2009/5/1 17:57
From Czech Republic
Posts: 929
@acefnq

Thanks for reporting!

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Re: X5000 More Stable After Changing Theme / How to Force Close Halted Apps? - OS4.1 FE w/ Crystal Theme
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2010/1/22 20:03
From VIGO SPAIN
Posts: 335
@acefnq

Same here, but with 4Gb, 2 Gb on OS4 and the 4 Gb in linux, last kernels.

Virginio

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AmigaOne X5000 OS4.1 FEU1 And Lubuntu 10.04
1200 towered with Blizzard PPC - BVision and Mediator
And a new fantastic Chameleon64
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Re: X5000 More Stable After Changing Theme / How to Force Close Halted Apps? - OS4.1 FE w/ Crystal Theme
Home away from home
Joined:
2006/11/20 16:26
From Norway
Posts: 2634
@Hans

Quote:
and simply switching the theme shouldn't affect the OS' stability.


Well because Prefs files are IFF files, the etch section is typically a struct, if the memory inside the section is smaller than the a newer struct, will not fully filled with proper values. If data has been removed from versions of IFF file, then wrong data might end up in wrong place in struct data structure.

Many of the themes on OS4 are many years old, the OS has changed a lot, and there is no version system for IFF prefs files.

Crashes in IPrefs or other interesting things can happen with old prefs file new version of OS.

Adapting JOE or XML, is something Hyperion should consider.

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Re: X5000 More Stable After Changing Theme / How to Force Close Halted Apps? - OS4.1 FE w/ Crystal Theme
Just popping in
Joined:
9/27 3:41
From USA
Posts: 53
@sacc-dude

Quote:

Bring it to AmiWest2017!

I'll fix it for you!!


I'm really considering going, I'd love to be there! Quite a drive for me, may have to fly if I go :P




@LiveForIt

Quote:

AmigaOS does not have way close crashed or programs that locks up, so developer has to be 110% more sure it things works.

if the OS or a program locks up all you can do reboot, that's the only safe thing to do.

If you can get program to get unstuck depends on how program locked up, if program is waiting for signal it never got, you can signal the program to get it get unstuck, but as you do not know what signal is for you, it can result in a crash. If this is the case.


I've found two applications that will in fact close the window and "terminate" the process, but I think that the data still resides in the RAM until you actually reboot. The application, in most events, will not function after you "terminate" it, but at least the damn window is off the screen.

Using KillWin40 and Exorcist, especially like Exorcist! Thanks to the friendly guy on IRC who recommended them if your reading this!




@Hans

Quote:

Do the system freezes occur when you're using particular programs?

AmigaOS 4.x should be pretty stable, and simply switching the theme shouldn't affect the OS' stability. So I'm wondering if the freezes relate to specific software you're using, or if maybe your machine is overheating or has some other issue (like the graphics card is flaky or not plugged in securely, maybe the power supply is poor).

If the Crystal theme requires less GPU processing power, then graphics card and/or power supply issues are plausible.


Not certain which software was causing the glitch, I think it was mostly the stupid Boing ball screen saver causing me so much frustration :P what a load of crap that screenblanker is. Once I took it out of the functional screenblankers, I cleared up the major graphics glitch that I was experiencing. If Hyperion isn't aware of this software bug, they really should be, especially for new users that don't realize it's the screenblanker breaking their session. I just realized that the machine only broke like that when I left the room and rationalized it must be the screenblanker, and that was the only once I couldn't get to work in test. You'd think that would be the most stable since the damn animation has been around for over three decades :P




@Tony
@trixie

Quote:
Which somewhat spoils the ExtMem party, doesn't it? Frankly, I see your finding as rather alarming. Could A-EON please comment on that, to clear things up?


My machine only sees 2.147 gigabytes of the 16gb that is actually socketed in the board.

Quote:
I don't assume that, but surely it would be disappointing if the X5000 didn't support more than 4GB? Which apparently isn't the case now that we know Spectre660 can run 8GB just fine.

I'm just curious if A-EON happened to have tested any 8GB(+) setups of the A5000, and if they're aware of any incompatibilities (which might affect tonyw's system).


My machine is brand new with FE and definitely has 16gb of RAM, but OS4.1 only sees the 2gb according to Ranger.




@LiveForIt

Quote:
Well because Prefs files are IFF files, the etch section is typically a struct, if the memory inside the section is smaller than the a newer struct, will not fully filled with proper values. If data has been removed from versions of IFF file, then wrong data might end up in wrong place in struct data structure.

Many of the themes on OS4 are many years old, the OS has changed a lot, and there is no version system for IFF prefs files.

Crashes in IPrefs or other interesting things can happen with old prefs file new version of OS.

Adapting JOE or XML, is something Hyperion should consider.


Does this mean that I can't backup the Sys:S/Env-arc so that if my screenmode screws up and I can't get it to go back up to the correct resolution, I can't just overwrite that folder with my backup copy of the pref datafiles?

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Re: X5000 More Stable After Changing Theme / How to Force Close Halted Apps? - OS4.1 FE w/ Crystal Theme
Just popping in
Joined:
2014/6/6 17:57
From Sacramento, CA
Posts: 5
@m1nuto

I don't know where in the usa you are...

BUT some of the best OS4 guys are attending (as always)

We will help you! FYI,

Amiga folks attending from Canada, England, New Zealand..


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Re: X5000 More Stable After Changing Theme / How to Force Close Halted Apps? - OS4.1 FE w/ Crystal Theme
Quite a regular
Joined:
2009/5/1 17:57
From Czech Republic
Posts: 929
@m1nuto

Quote:
My machine is brand new with FE and definitely has 16gb of RAM, but OS4.1 only sees the 2gb according to Ranger.

This is perfectly normal and expected. But since the Final Edition, programs running under AmigaOS can use ExtMem memory objects to allocate memory beyond the limit given by the 32bit nature of the OS. In my comments I was merely wondering why tonyw's system doesn't accept 8GB of memory: if it really were the case, the usability of ExtMem would be seriously compromised on his system.

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Re: X5000 More Stable After Changing Theme / How to Force Close Halted Apps? - OS4.1 FE w/ Crystal Theme
Home away from home
Joined:
2006/11/20 16:26
From Norway
Posts: 2634
@m1nuto

Quote:

I've found two applications that will in fact close the window and "terminate" the process, but I think that the data still resides in the RAM until you actually reboot. The application, in most events, will not function after you "terminate" it, but at least the damn window is off the screen.

Using KillWin40 and Exorcist, especially like Exorcist! Thanks to the friendly guy on IRC who recommended them if your reading this!


True, but in AmigaOS memory is shared, program is not removed for memory, if windows are removed then this can also result in additional crashes, cross communication between programs are not uncommon, beside main program might be running while child process has crashed, versa versa.

Quote:

Does this mean that I can't backup the Sys:S/Env-arc so that if my screenmode screws up and I can't get it to go back up to the correct resolution, I can't just overwrite that folder with my backup copy of the pref datafiles?


it depends on what changes Hyperion made in update or not, what is safe to restore or not, you should not.

Some prefs are most likely safe to backup like deficons prefs.

You won't copy old versions library's over new once, way should coping old prefs over new prefs be any better.

You can check version number of librarys, there is no version numbering for prefs, so there is no way telling if it's safe or not.

Quote:
if my screenmode screws up and I can't get it to go back up to the correct resolution


As screen modes are detected at boot up modeid are auto generated, switching to a different monitor will most likely result in different modeid's for different resolutions.


Edited by LiveForIt on 2017/10/8 9:33:14
Edited by LiveForIt on 2017/10/8 9:34:08
Edited by LiveForIt on 2017/10/8 9:35:59
Edited by LiveForIt on 2017/10/8 9:36:52
Edited by LiveForIt on 2017/10/8 9:39:10
Edited by LiveForIt on 2017/10/8 9:40:15
Edited by LiveForIt on 2017/10/8 9:45:33
Edited by LiveForIt on 2017/10/8 9:46:53
Edited by LiveForIt on 2017/10/8 10:12:14
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