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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Quite a regular
Joined:
2006/11/29 8:09
From Lyon, France
Posts: 906
@Kas1le

Maybe we should look at the problem the other way round.

Maybe a really good browser would help level up the user base and consequently allow editors to sale many other softwares to this increased user base.

In other words : a really good browser could help bringing new people to OS 4.

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Quite a regular
Joined:
2013/10/17 15:21
From Hungary
Posts: 534
@kas1e
I agree with almost everything, but the JS JIT is not necessary to have a functional browser, see Odyssey.
Speaking of which, people were really spoiled because WebKit happened to be big-endian compatible and Fab built a browser around it and you made a port. There is nobody to fix the JavaScriptCore interpreter after 3 years (at least I'm not aware of anybody who tried), and they think A-Eon will port them a brand new browser from scratch? Good luck with that.

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Just popping in
Joined:
2016/3/10 14:15
From Poland
Posts: 19
Ask for a new browser: Jörg Strohmayer (Origyn Web Browser).

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2006/11/24 17:54
From Sanremo
Posts: 1700
Slowly it goes on... who knows maybe, one day, IBrowse will be, again, the Browser for all the Amiga systems and, honestly, I will be happy!

http://www.ibrowse-dev.net/faq.php#Q1

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Home away from home
Joined:
2007/5/19 13:23
From England
Posts: 3495
@BSzili Quote:
and they think A-Eon will port them a brand new browser from scratch? Good luck with that

I don't follow your logic. Sure it's gotten harder. All that means is that it's less likely some one is going to do it for free in their spare time. And that means the paid route looks more & more like the only option.

The main question is how it would be maintained once the initial port was done. I'd suggest some kind of subscription. A modern web browser is so necessary for so many things these days, it's probably the one piece of software that a subscription might be seen as worth-while by a large part of the user base.

Probably better to do the initial port, see how it sells, and if enough people buy it THEN decide on a subscription level for further (perhaps annual) updates.


The LibreOffice port is unlikely to need frequent updates to stay useful, so perhaps A-Eon can look at a web browser port after they finish the LibreOffice port?

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2008/1/6 17:56
From Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 1249
@BSzili
Quote:
...and they think A-Eon will port them a brand new browser from scratch?

I wonder if anyone has looked at this:

https://sourceforge.net/projects/tenfourfox
https://github.com/classilla/tenfourfox

I don't have a PPC MAC, so I don't know how good it is but it appears that it is still being maintained and updated.

_________________
Amiga X1000 with 2GB memory & OS 4.1FE + Radeon HD 5450

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Quite a regular
Joined:
2013/10/5 14:07
From Italy
Posts: 616
@xenic

it work better than real firefox on linux ppc.
zero crashes ultra compatibility with websites.
Just on OsX dont play facebook video

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Just popping in
Joined:
8/8 20:17
From Canada
Posts: 35
Hi, all.

Pardon my newbie-ness here. Brand new to the community. So perhaps an intro is warranted.... I'm a very long time Amigan, with my brother and I starting with an A500 and then an A2000, A3000T complete with bridgeboard, and an A4000. Been a software developer and tech entrepreneur (and lawyer -- but the kind everyone actually wants to see!) for decades, on every hardware and O/S platform I could get exposed to.

Just got back into the Amiga world as I've not actually _enjoyed_ computers in decades. I figured it was time for a change. I own companies, so I've owned hundreds of PC's and Macs and almost-exclusively-Linux servers: fun-level? Near zero.

I mention all of this as I'm wondering where the bouncing boing ball is on the C++ 11 standard libraries/threads/etc. as I, too, believe that there are exactly 2 must-have/killer-apps needed for any platform nowadays. A fully functioning browser (with fast JS engine -- able to run the latest that Google Suite and O365 throw out there) and a fully functioning/MS Office compatible suite. From what I gather, the LibreOffice port is well underway (great!).

As an aside, I believe 64-bits is kind of an assumed for most, but actually used by only a few, in my experience -- so 32-bit everything is OK for now.

Back to the point...and I ask here because I can't seem to get a better/more recent answer anywhere else....is C++ Std Lib (including its full threads) the biggest hurdle to a great port of whatever browser?

If so, does anyone know the specific barrier to porting either libstdc++11 or libc++11? Or even later versions, while we're on that topic.

I'd like to see if I can help, eventually, once I clear some stuff off my plate.

Last point, does anyone know if Hyperion is tackling this very issue as they tackle LibreOffice porting?


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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Quite a regular
Joined:
2006/11/22 17:57
From Italy, Rome
Posts: 546
@stonecracker

Welcome!

Hope that a browser and an office software will materialize soon on the Amiga land.

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Home away from home
Joined:
2007/5/19 13:23
From England
Posts: 3495
@stonecracker Quote:
Last point, does anyone know if Hyperion is tackling this very issue as they tackle LibreOffice porting?

Correction: It is A-Eon NOT Hyperion who are tackling the LibreOffice port.

And regarding if they are looking at a modern browser port (and presumably modern compiler support), there are a few small hints given in this rather long podcast interview:
http://www.amigans.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=2576
(The short answer is probably yes, if the guy is to be believed (I've not heard of him before), but if so, then it is very unofficial - so they could still easily cancel it (before announcing it) if they ran into real difficulties.)

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2006/11/24 17:54
From Sanremo
Posts: 1700
I bet on IBrowse 3.0

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2007/1/26 21:48
From New Zealand
Posts: 1861
@stonecracker

Welcome.

Quote:
If so, does anyone know the specific barrier to porting either libstdc++11 or libc++11? Or even later versions, while we're on that topic.

AFAIK, there's no real technical barrier. We have GCC 5.3.0+, which is C++11 capable. It's just a matter of someone taking the time to implement the newer C++ stdlib.

If you're interested in helping out, then please contact the maintainer of our GCC port (link to adtools). He'll be able to tell you what needs to be done, and any relevant design ideas.

Hans

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Quite a regular
Joined:
2013/10/5 14:07
From Italy
Posts: 616
@Hans
what we really need is somthing like is macports. for example the guys of teen4fox thanks to this tool are able to build new version of the gecko engine on the old osx leopard.
for what i know macports are like a geekgadget but in a cloud server. where every ports is build on the machine by the user every time they need something. ports build dependency, library and program need by user automatically. is a really usefull thing and can be really useful an engine like this to our community.

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Just popping in
Joined:
2013/10/23 14:18
From Kuusamo, Finland
Posts: 81
@stonecracker

Hi!

Welcome back to the Amiga world

-Breed-

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2008/5/2 12:14
From Sweden
Posts: 477
@stonecracker

Hi, and welcome!

Our current browser (Odyssey) is based on Webkit (which is good), but the latest versions of Webkit dropped big-endian support in the JS engine (not good). So someone here needs to reimplement big-endian support in the JS-engine to prevent it from crashing at the first JS it runs.

Problem is: Noone who actually has the skills to do it (like for example me) have the time to do it. It seems like a pretty big job with lots and lots of code to go through and understand and test and fix. (Assuming, since I haven't actually looked at the code.)

Just setting up the build environment, which has to be cross-compile, and get all the dependencies together is a big hurdle. I tend to get so pissed of when I have to deal with dependencies and make problems that I almost throw the computer out, so I need a simple idiot-proof setup if I'm even going to think about trying to work on it. Maybe someone can help here...

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Home away from home
Joined:
2006/12/2 3:55
From Italy, Perugia
Posts: 2976
@Deniil

kas1e has already a build environment ready to use, no need to create a new one from scratch .. eventually just ask and try to work with him

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Just popping in
Joined:
8/8 20:17
From Canada
Posts: 35
Thanks, all, for the welcome.

@Denlil: from what I read here and elsewhere, the first issue with Odyssey or any other Webkit browser is a missing port/lack of a big-endian C++11 Standard Library (specifically threads?).

Also, for the JS interpreter/JIT, the blockage is also a missing/lacking C++11/threading library but if I understand correctly, there are other issues in the big-endian porting of the Odyssey JS that are beyond just the C++11 library problem.

And, from what I've read, it looks like there are some people who've taken some runs at possible solutions -- whether looking at porting little-endian x86 AROS/Icaros/etc browsers, or perhaps a port of TenFourFox, or (very daringly but perhaps ideally) a complete
port of Chromium -- but nobody has completed the work.

Lastly, I'm a bit fuzzy on where any possible bounties landed on this issue, and the state of the source code on any such bounties.

If anyone has more insight I'd certainly welcome it.

I think a nice place for my brain to rest is.... just how much of the O/S's problems/lack of software do the followers of this thread believe could be solved simply with a proper big-endian port of a (GNU?) C++11 Standard Library?

On a similar note, does AROS/Icaros have similar issues given its endianness? I just don't yet know enough about the state of browser/other software on AROS.

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Quite a regular
Joined:
2006/11/29 8:09
From Lyon, France
Posts: 906
@Thread

Another option to look at is QupZilla.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QupZilla

We need a recent port of Qt (5.1).

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AmigaONE X1000 1,8Ghz, 2GB, Sapphire Radeon HD 7700, with Amiga OS 4.1 FE
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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Home away from home
Joined:
2006/11/26 21:45
From A haunted Castle somewhere in the Bavarian Mountains
Posts: 2902
@stonecracker

I think we already have c++11, at least with the available (but not "officially" supported...if there is something like "officially" anmore anyway) gcc 5.3.0.

I know i tried building one of my porting projects with c++11 enabled..it failed, so not everything is working there right now, but it should be easier to start from there than porting a whole new compiler...imho

You can get gcc 5.3.0 from here

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2007/7/14 20:30
From Lothric
Posts: 269
@Raziel

So far our GCC doesn't support C++11 concurrency features, threads, mutexes etc. There is nothing technical preventing those (there is pthreads library for example), I guess it is a question of time or motivation.

At some point we must have those C++11 features or porting C++ code becomes cumbersome (when you have to rewrite those part in old C++).

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