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Re: Greek Characters - Re: Translators Wanted
Quite a regular
Joined:
2006/11/27 14:24
From Scarfskerry
Posts: 560
@abalaban

> « and » are the official correct french quotation marks for example.

BTW. Wouldn't that cause problems with Wordworth which uses those chevron symbols for mail merging ?

Mayber it does !

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Re: Greek Characters - Re: Translators Wanted
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2006/12/1 19:07
From Germany
Posts: 1022
@BillE

Quote:
If there is a better way of doing things if someone could let me know, and then I may be able to do something else for v2.
To open a font in a different charset than the system default one you have to use something like (untested)
struct TagItem tags[] = { { TA_CharSet10 /* 10 = MIBenum for ISO-8859-7, check L:CharSets/character-sets for others */, { TAG_DONE} };
struct TTextAttr textAttr = {"DejaVu Sans" /* has to be a TTF font with greek chars, "Topaz", "Fixed" or a bitmap font which is available in ISO-8859-7 included with your program */font_sizeFSF_TAGGEDFPF_DISKFONTtags};
struct TextFont *greekFont IDiskFont->OpenDiskFont((struct TextAttr *)&textAttr);

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Re: Translators Wanted
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2006/12/1 18:01
From Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 1029
@BillE

Quote:
BillE wrote:
It is safest to add all the strings to a .cd file then, even if maybe some will not be translated, but at least there will be the option to do so if appropriate.

I agree. And I have to date (I think) never had the opportunity to translate a catalog where no strings at all were the same in the original and the translated version. So that's no problem in itself.

Quote:
I did mention "The Plough" as being a common name and not one of the official ones that DU would use. BTW It is only the Americans that call it The Big Dipper, in 'English' English it is The Plough

Ah, sorry, didn't know that.

Quote:
and we even called it Charles' Wagon in the distant past. I had forgotten that name until you mentioned the Danish equivalent.

Interesting - perhaps a relic from the Viking days?

Quote:
In French it is le "Chariot". I do expect these local names to change with country but was not sure about the official Latin ones that DU uses.

Well, my point is, as far as I know (and I admit I'm not an astronomer), in Danish everybody uses the common names for things like Karlsvognen and Nordstjernen, so those should also be the ones used in the Danish version of DU.

Quote:
How does the Latin genetive work in your language as used in a star name such as Alpha Orionis ?

When Latin is used, it is conjugated as Latin, so it doesn't "work in our language" at all, but in Latin. So we'd call it Alpha Orionis even in the context of a Danish sentence -- unless we have a common Danish name for it (I don't remember offhand whether we do for Alpha Orionis).

Quote:
So the star names would not translate then if the Arabic is still used, but I wonder if that is the same for all languages ?

Most likely not.

Quote:
Things like The Pole Star / North Star are common names not used by DU but Polaris would still be Polaris.

Almost no Danes would even know what Polaris was. Everybody calls it Nordstjernen.

Quote:
On screen the characters are shown, DU uses a custom font as things like α were not available when originally written. However that would stay the same but in lists and windows the Greek letters are spelled out in Lain characters, it is these occurences I was wondering about. Though I guess Alpha is the same in most languages ?

I would suggest changing from a custom (bitmap) font to a TTF font containing the needed glyphs with the correct Unicode values. I think this would be usable in OS4 regardless of the current Locale settings and system charset, although I'm not sure about the technical details of how it is used from a program. (Edit: Ah, I see Jörg has already given an example which seems to cover this.)

But if you have a look at e.g. Locale prefs, the first tab page, when you have the needed font installed (e.g. BitStream CyberBit or -- perhaps "stolen" from a Windows installation like I have -- Arial Unicode), you can see that all the "exotic" language names are written in their own script. So it is doable.

Best regards,

Niels

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Re: Translators Wanted
Quite a regular
Joined:
2006/11/27 14:24
From Scarfskerry
Posts: 560
@nbache

Quote:

nbache wrote:
@BillE

Quote:


Quote:
and we even called it Charles' Wagon in the distant past.

Interesting - perhaps a relic from the Viking days?


I read in the past that it had something to do with Charles II and the English Civil War but that cannot be right if it is used elsewhere in Europe. I had a quick look and came across http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Charles'_Wain It would seem it is named afer Charlemagne


Quote:

Well, my point is, as far as I know (and I admit I'm not an astronomer), in Danish everybody uses the common names for things like Karlsvognen and Nordstjernen, so those should also be the ones used in the Danish version of DU.


The problem hgere is that the common names for the seven bright stars are not the same as the constellation Ursa Major which is much bigger. Karlsvogne I imagine is the equivalent of Charles Wain or The Plough which is NOT the same thing as Ursa Major. What you would need to do is translate Great Bear into Danish. Again North Star is not the proper name for Polaris in English but AFAIK Nordstjerne may be the correct translation for the correct name in your language.

Quote:
How does the Latin genetive work in your language as used in a star name such as Alpha Orionis ?

When Latin is used, it is conjugated as Latin, so it doesn't "work in our language" at all, but in Latin. So we'd call it Alpha Orionis even in the context of a Danish sentence -- unless we have a common Danish name for it (I don't remember offhand whether we do for Alpha Orionis).


Remember DU is aimed not at the man in the street but for the serious astronomer as an observing tool. So most using it would expect the techncal names rather than colloquail ones, which are imprecise. See the comment about The Plough vs Ursa Major. Maybe the International Astronomical Union has lists of official names for different languages. I will see what I can come up with.


Quote:

I would suggest changing from a custom (bitmap) font to a TTF font containing the needed glyphs with the correct Unicode values. I think this would be usable in OS4 regardless of the current Locale settings and system charset, although I'm not sure about the technical details of how it is used from a program. (Edit: Ah, I see Jörg has already given an example which seems to cover this.)


I saw that but ATM it is as clear as mud on how to do it.

I suppose I could use a set of glyphs (preferably ones I do not have to try to draw myself) for the Bayer designations shown on the DU backdrop. I wonder how it would be possible to mix them with a normal font within the Information window unless they and normal characters are both available. I could always just write Alpha, Beta etc. which is what DU has to do when printing out the information. In fact that part of the code could be made much simpler without doing any character translations in order to print. A lot of the legacy stuff like that can be changed in v2 as now there are probably far better ways of doing the same things.

Quote:

But if you have a look at e.g. Locale prefs, the first tab page, when you have the needed font installed (e.g. BitStream CyberBit or -- perhaps "stolen" from a Windows installation like I have -- Arial Unicode), you can see that all the "exotic" language names are written in their own script. So it is doable.


I see that. The problem is finding out just who knows how to do it

Best regards,

Bill.

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Re: Translators Wanted
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2006/12/1 19:07
From Germany
Posts: 1022
@BillE

Quote:
I saw that but ATM it is as clear as mud on how to do it.

I suppose I could use a set of glyphs (preferably ones I do not have to try to draw myself) for the Bayer designations shown on the DU backdrop. I wonder how it would be possible to mix them with a normal font within the Information window unless they and normal characters are both available.
Depends on what you mean with "normal characters", the US-ACSII ones are included in all ISO-8859 charsets. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO/IEC_8859-7
If you need greek and the system default charset the easiest way is to open the font twice, once with TA_CharSet, 10 (greek) and once without (system default charset for localized texts).

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Re: Translators Wanted
Home away from home
Joined:
2006/11/30 18:43
From Norway
Posts: 2461
@BillE

Do you have a norwegian translation? If not i could try to help. Is there much work? Many difficult words?
And if i could borrow the danish translation too that would be a good help,should be something there i could use.

_________________
Sam460 Lite
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Re: Translators Wanted
Quite a regular
Joined:
2006/11/27 14:24
From Scarfskerry
Posts: 560
@Antique

Quote:


Do you have a norwegian translation? If not i could try to help. Is there much work? Many difficult words?


I do not have anyone for Norway yet so welcome.

3D Stars is very small in GUI terms with not many words. Some are abbreviations but they are explained.

Digital Universe is huge but that will be long term and done in small stages and has not yet been started. That is for later.


Quote:

And if i could borrow the danish translation too that would be a good help,should be something there i could use.


Email me and I can send you the files and details by email, I am not sure if it is possible to send attachments with Amigans PM. I do have a Danish translation that I can send you.


Regards,


Bill.

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Re: Translators Wanted
Just popping in
Joined:
2006/12/5 21:08
Posts: 62
@BillE

On behalf of the oh so maaaany Nynorsk speaking OS4 users I'd be happy to do a Norwegian-nynorsk translation.
Like my fellow countryman mr. Antique I'd appreciate it if you'd send me the danish translation so I can use that as a reference.
I just sent you a mail regarding DU v1.6 so you should have my e-mail address.

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Re: Translators Wanted
Quite a regular
Joined:
2006/11/27 14:24
From Scarfskerry
Posts: 560
@Monoxyde

Thanks for the offer.

I will get back to people in just over a week.

My ADSL router packed in and the dial up connection at home keeps dropping out .

I am at the public library at the moment and will probably not have a reliable online connection until later next week as I need a new router and will also be away a few days.


Thanks for all the help.

Gat back to you all later when I am online again.


Bill.

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Re: Translators Wanted
Quite a regular
Joined:
2006/11/27 14:24
From Scarfskerry
Posts: 560
Can Javie de las Rivas please email me again. The email address I tried to reply to this morning did not work.

I am having trouble getting online at the moment and seem to have far more problems with email using dial up than I do normally. So it may be a problem at my ISP or the wrong email address, I am not sure.


Bill.

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Re: Translators Wanted
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2007/2/6 13:57
From Donostia (SPAIN)
Posts: 366
@BillE

javierdlr AT euskalnet.net

Hope it works

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Re: Translators Wanted
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2006/12/1 18:01
From Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 1029
@BillE

Quote:

BillE wrote:
I do have a Danish translation that I can send you.

Oops, guess I'd better get the update done then

Expect the latest Danish translation some time later tonight or at worst tomorrow evening.

Hope you get your network problems sorted.

Best regards,

Niels

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Re: Translators Wanted
Quite a regular
Joined:
2006/11/27 14:24
From Scarfskerry
Posts: 560
@nbache

No hurry.

My internet access is down at the moment.

I will be away until next week.


Bill.

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Re: Translators Wanted
Quite a regular
Joined:
2006/11/27 14:24
From Scarfskerry
Posts: 560
@jabirulo


Thanks for the tip on using the older OS4.0 serial device. It seems to have worked. It is still as slow as anything, the modem only connects at 24k, but at least it now works without dropping out now

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Re: Translators Wanted
Quite a regular
Joined:
2006/11/27 14:24
From Scarfskerry
Posts: 560
Hi,

I am back from my break and had a nice new roter waiting for me so I am once again back online.

I will now be able to get in contact with those of you that have offered to translate.


Bill.

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