Rogue wrote:
@keisangi

Quote:

keisangi wrote:
AmigaOS need to evolve with todays standard.. and when i say "today" i'm being nice cause utf8 / large files support / modern browser / and getting an OS stable and protected from it's own tasks! is in almost every systems around since quite a while.

As I said, large file support is already in, as you would know if you had any idea what you are talking about.

You know pretty little about AmigaOS obviously if you think you can build in all-out memory protection into it - this is not possible in the current incarnation, and it will need to move to an incompatible API at one point to achieve this. That will happen, mind you, but not just now.

Rogue wrote:
@keisangi

You know pretty little about AmigaOS obviously if you think you can build in all-out memory protection into it - this is not possible in the current incarnation, and it will need to move to an incompatible API at one point to achieve this. That will happen, mind you, but not just now.

that left us obviously with the type of the middle for the larger majority.. the type that will buy because of his past memories with Amiga..

a break in compatibility will be more difficult and much more software would need to be rewritten.

- you claim large file support is in, but afaik only sfs2 implemented actual support for it.

Billsey wrote:

I know pretty little about it, too. It’s been quite a while since I read your OS4 reports in Club Amiga Magazine. Am I following the wrong course when I think that this has to do with the OS being single user versus multi-user?

Helge wrote:

Please excuse my ignorance (I also only know little about AmigaOS internals), but to me it seems like a good thing to move to the incompatible API better sooner than later.
Why? Because there isn't much OS4 software now. When OS4 is more popular in the future (after Hyperion has hopefully won the lawsuit), a break in compatibility will be more difficult and much more software would need to be rewritten.

The dos library fully supports it. Its true that the only publically available filesystem that supports it is SFS2, yes, but note the term "publically available"? Thats right. End users can use >4Gb files on AmigaOS4, not just betatesters.

Our plan is to move everything up one layer, i.e. make the HAL a software implementation based on a newer kernel, with the old system running as a separate task but using services from the new system.

The compatibility break is inevitable. We've seen it again and again, last time with the pager support - the current (beta) kernel supports swapping to disk. However, there are a lot of exceptions of memory that can simply not swapped (mostly because of the memory protection issues again).

jahc wrote:

If this plan goes ahead, does that mean current OS4 apps will run under a sandbox with the older kernel, and that the newer OS4.x apps will have enhanced features, and maybe a better form of memory protection?

keisangi wrote:

@rogue

well, maybe you're right, i'm not civilised enough to get to discuss os4 internals with you.. i don't mind.

but let me ask you that question anyway:

how do you think the lambda potential new amigaos user would react when looking at os4 more closely ?

- what ? no OS protection from it's own tasks? (any app can crash it completly)

- no ut8 ?
- you claim large file support is in, but afaik only sfs2 implemented actual support for it. maybe beta user have access to a special version of ffs2, but last time i've checked, ffs2 couldn't write files bigger than 4gb .. so what's the use if only beta tester have it ? plain users still don't.
So no, os4 still doesn't have large file support ..
and even if it did, most of the apps are outdated and doesn't support it anyway. so from practical user point of view: no large file support.

- 3d layer isn't up to date

- and most of the OS fundation are based of an outdated API and are very weak. that's one of the worst reason i can think of.

keisangi wrote:

So you have our potential new AmigaOS user i was talking at the beginning.. what do you think his reaction would be ?

i can think of two or three:

he won't even bother looking again at AmigaOS for until the next big release announced with bells and whistle saying " Lots of good new stuffs, pretty much got updated ...etc.. "
So obviously you won't even hear a single word from that type of potential user, they won't even bother. it doesn't worth it, they will probably think.


another type of potential user will buy you r product because of good memories he had with Amiga, and then, realizing the state of the thing after few weeks of use, he will get frustrated and quit, doing bad publicity around him, or he will just complain like me on public forum trying to push things in the right direction.. (not that I know what's good for everyone .. i can't pretend that, but i can pretend crash and reboot aren't good for anyone .. that i can pretend it's bad for sure..)

and then you'll have the last type blind followers, you won't hear much from this type either, they'll just keep praising you as a living god.. but unfortunatly for you this type is rare ;)

keisangi wrote:

that left us obviously with the type of the middle for the larger majority.. the type that will buy because of his past memories with Amiga..

keisangi wrote:

do you really think everyone will wait for your good disposition or will just have the right wording to reach you ?
my guess is that some ppl will get pissed up and will probably moan , complain and rant or what ever on the public forums just the way i do.

keisangi wrote:

fundations of os4 need to be improved asap, or you won't attract much ppl to this product, and the acension will be slow and painful.. if the product can survive at all .

keisangi wrote:

something should be done now, that there's not much Amigan and application around .. as helge said, breaking compatibility at a later point could be more painful, if there's more apps and users ..

keisangi wrote:

so when do you plan to make this OS interesting ?

keisangi wrote:

if you compare with other alteranives OS amigaos isn't particulary appealing riht now .. that's a shame and a waste, considering it was so much ahead of it's time in the 1980s & 1990s era

keisangi wrote:

and take note i'm not comparing to mainstream players .. just other alternatives .. such as haiku or skyos for example ..but there's more..

keisangi wrote:

as i said you can ignore me saying i'm not adult enough to be worth your answers, but i think thoses questions will be ask by others anyway.. what will you find to say to them then ?

keisangi wrote:

i mean, now that you recognized some of my points are valid but refusing to discuss em with me cause i'm not adult enough..
..that doesn't make the point i've made less valid, right ?

I wouldn't call it a sandbox, rather a virtual environment. The old system will run in its own address space as a separate task. It's not like a UAE or anything like that. It might or might not be able to become aware of the outside world, we still need to clear up the details.

Billsey wrote:

So, what you're talking about is really like running two OS's at once on the same machine, with one acting as "overseer", so to speak.